Season 3 (Input)

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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby almiteycow » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:23 am

cgeyl wrote:
There already was a beta for season 3 remember


Alpha maybe? I rolled some new base code, but since then we left bukkit... Also the designers changed directions.... Also, since I'm not an admin, I get to say it was really crappy. Or maybe just poorly thought out. We did get a lot of good feedback and learned a ton.

It may have been my fault it was crappy, at least partially, possibly entirely.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby gigyas6 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:37 am

I'm just gonna drop the whole combat thing at this point because I've explained it pretty clearly between three multi-paragraph posts. If I seem frustrated, I am. I'm not going to restate myself anymore - the stuff's there if you want to actually read it and not take things grossly out of context.


As far as grouping, I think a major problem for nations right now is that most folks just want to group with their friends and stay in those clicks. This isn't bad in and of itself, and I'd say it's even encourageable. Makes it to where players actually form nations together rather than being spread out.
The issue I've been seeing is that there isn't much incentive for players to interact more with folks outside their own friend-groups, or for individuals to try and interact with these larger groups. Sure, the faction set up for Season 3 will bring these people together under the same flag, but you'll still see groups of 3-5 people who just hang out within themselves and don't include much others. I'm worried this can cause issues with player agency, as players who aren't part of those bigger, more important, more impactful groups will hardly have a chance to contribute much.
This something that tends to happen in any large-scale roleplays, and a trap we've fallen victim to in the past in varying degrees. Something to encourage or incentivize working directly with folks you don't know would be good, and I think healthy for the community as a whole. We might be more than willing to hang out with everyone who's here now, given we've all chatted and worked together on stuff for the last few years - but what about when new people come on who aren't already connected to the community in some way?

A lot of the problems in Season 2 I feel, besides one-man nations, were these bubbles everyone was forming. And if you weren't already in the bubble, it was going to be a struggle to enter it.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby Sheez » Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:04 am

I actually like the idea of alternative weapon options. How different they end up being in function is a whole 'nother story.

It's a thing that I would like to explore but we'd want to significantly test it and experiment with it. Unfortunately, mostly other things need to happen first. It'll be easier to do with the combat patch. It just adds a lot of ease and flexibility with what already exists.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby Sheez » Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:06 am

gigyas6 wrote:Gigyas says things


Man, I have solutions to some of that shit. That isn't to say they're perfect, but capture points and similar unique bennies will inspire people to interact with the world to get stuff. And that, by nature, means interacting with other people. Providing enough carrot has been a long-debated topic.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby Sheez » Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:35 pm

Biggest concern related to cliques is the off hours people. People from Austrailia and such.

If everyone from that region is in one faction, it gives that faction an advantage.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby Sheez » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:11 pm

I haven't chimed in on the weapon discussion at all, but I think that it's important we do so.

N@W will never be Chivalry (and I don't think gigyas is suggesting that it be that way). You'll never need the konami code to execute a finishing move and, quite frankly, directional swings are ridiculous and not something I have any desire to design or code. Not that anyone would code them for me anyway.

That said, combat in minecraft is very one-dimensional. There's one ideal weapon for melee, one for range. Once you have an advantage, it's easy to keep that advantage. Your options for carrying a fight over distance or changing your engage distances are essentially nil. I understand the fun in that simplicity, but I would argue that we can maintain a similar level of simplicity while still substantially opening up a series of options. Don't mistake this for knocking the good in that simplicity. The intent is not to overhaul the combat in minecraft, but to expand the kinds of choices you can make.

Keeping in mind that a bunch of similar changes are already coming in 1.9, consider the kind of things you can do with attack speed, damage, and armor penetration tables. Daggers that stab a little faster and dig through armor, but don't do as much damage and that have a lower range. Two handed swords (because we get that extra hand slot) that have more range and damage, and maybe affect a sweeping area, but are slower. Shields and one-handed swords. Ranged weapons that can gain or lose effectiveness at different ranges, or are more effective in certain situations. The lower end of this is already making it's way into the game (hoes are now the fastest, lowest damage weapons, axes have a good chance to break shields for a time, swords now have a defensive sweep attack), I just want to put the rest of it to good use.

True, it does mean your engagements in combat will be more than just "I run/jump at this guy and hit him until he's dead", but then smart PVP has always been about doing more than that. It also means that you can build your loadout to work with the kind of combat you excel at (even if it is just jumping at a guy and hitting him until he's dead), while allowing other folks options that also suit their playstyle.

Maybe that's not what you've been looking to hear, but it's the thought process behind what we're going into this discussion with.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby cgeyl » Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:32 am

I was just worried we'd end up with an a'therys like system; I think different weapons and attack speed works, I just don't want to have to press any number keys in combat.

I think you guys have mentioned elsewhere about nerfing armour and enchantments, I think that's crucial to keeping combat ballanced too.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby Sheez » Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:04 am

We are not looking at using a heroes type system like atherys. Mostly just going for more dynamic combat.

Perks might add a very small combat applicable ability but beyond that we don't really want to stir the pot.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby Krakatoah » Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:14 am

Although it's not bloody likely to happen, I'd like to see smart moving implemented in S3.

It was fun as heck on dewcraft and I kinda miss it and the uses it would have in not only build styles but for bringing new life into exploring dungeons and finding secrets.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby orionic » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:08 pm

Heya, late to the party.
The thing that I liked the most in N@W S2 and probably most of the games I play is the story, the feeling of meaning to what we do. Heck, I chose to join necropolis for the immense backstory it had, and the oppurtunity for characters from Necro to prove/redeem themselves.

I remember the most exiting experience I ever had behind my PC being a raid by what I believe was the Teutonic order on necropolis. Not because the well developed skills in fighting, for it was all very vanilla point and click with bow/sword. Not because of the elaborate strategies of war, because it was unnanounced, and set in a very difficult to traverse environment.Not because there were massive armies fighting eachother, hell I believe there were only 7 people involved in said fight.
It was exiting for what it meant to me. Not even a week ago we had stirred up the server with the raid on the accord of nations, and now the crusade had arrived to claim our heads, on our doorstep. I knew the people who came for us, we had thrown insults on the forums before, and now it was time to prove our worth.
My heart was pumping, my hands sweaty and shaking. I dont remember if I actually killed anyone, i think Tikukipu (remember that fucker?) did most of the killing, but that did not bother me. Never before had a game made me feel like this, and I will probably remember it as the most exiting moment in a game/in N@W ever (until s3 ofc. :winky: )

That said, the way the world works (metafysicly), be it through gods, magic or whatever intrigued me. I always wanted to see a world where minecraft was more than these 3 dimensions that seemed to have nothing to do with eachother. I wanted so see a story behind it, a reason. The custom netherworld sparked some of that interest in me. The broken paths and the wrecked pillars made me curious for what the reason/story behind them was, and if I perhaps could manipulate the world to form to what I would make it, should I find out enough about it.

Well, thats about what worked for me 3 years ago, and I believe it still does.
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