Season 3 (Input)

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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby Sheez » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:00 pm

Just as a side note, combat has never been a minor thing in NAW. As a primarily pvp server, it cannot be minor.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby Sheez » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:05 pm

Nations at war exists to offer a server that provides opportunity to explore the combat with players option of the game while supporting a narrative for and by the players.

If the base game's combat is expanded and diversified (and that is what is actually happening), we are going to implement the changes and take full advantage of any opportunities that they present.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby Raidonrai » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:26 pm

So I started writing out a big post a few days ago but I've decided I really can't be bothered finishing it, so I'm just going to sum it up as quickly as I can.

The "War system" should improve wars, not make them more frequent.

What I've heard about it so far, offering incentives for nations to go to war with eachother, and then deciding the victor through some minigame style win conditions, is not going to make wars better. All it's going to do is reduce the impact of wars and ultimately make a majority of them meaningless.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby Sheez » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:10 pm

The important thing to keep in mind with season 3 is that there are three factions. These factions are at war. The season is war.

War is not only sieges. Sieges give an ability to break people's stuff and not completely ruin their experience. Don't want to defend your town or get in PvP? That's fine. People can just get free resources from you. Bullying the same folks will lower gains and become harder and harder to do. Basically war is always happening but sieges and control points give people meaningful options to make an impact.

We are tired of servers where everyone turtles in their protection and never engage in Pvp unless their forces are obviously superior. If a town is being sieged, an entire faction can come to their defense to prevent another faction from getting free resources. Pacifists can back off to mining camps or take control points elsewhere while the Warriors defend their allied towns. When this stuff is not going on, protections are up and it will be plain ol NAW.

If beta shows that the system fails, so be it. Our basics come first anyhow. I will take your concerns to heart though. Let's first give it a chance, it can be deactivated if the experience proves to be shit.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby Sheez » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:00 pm

Raidonrai wrote:So I started writing out a big post a few days ago but I've decided I really can't be bothered finishing it, so I'm just going to sum it up as quickly as I can.

The "War system" should improve wars, not make them more frequent.

What I've heard about it so far, offering incentives for nations to go to war with eachother, and then deciding the victor through some minigame style win conditions, is not going to make wars better. All it's going to do is reduce the impact of wars and ultimately make a majority of them meaningless.


There's a lot of stuff within these statements that can be..misinterpreted, and I think that you clarifying your points would clarify the overall message of what you're trying to get at. At that point I can address the actual concerns, rather than trying to hit the implied message you're throwing out. We've already spent a lot of time talking past each other, and having direct points rather than whispy generalizations may help prevent that.

I disagree, for example, that a war system that improves sieges won't also increase their frequency. If sieges are fun, people will take part in them more often. Those goals support each other, so your initial statement seems contradictory. I suspect that your longer explanation may have had more for us to work on, and the discussions that would generate from that may be worth your time to put down.

We're engaging with you guys here, so if you want to make a point and get our take this is the place to do it. If you can't be bothered it's not going to bother me as it's something I don't need to spend any time on.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby Sheez » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:16 pm

Also, if wars happen then wars are better.

Cause people don't fight because they are afraid of losing all of their crap.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby cgeyl » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:32 pm

When I was talking about making it interesting for individuals i didn't mean for hermits or "I don't even have a nation" people. I mean for people who live in a different part of time to most of the wars, or for people who's group just digs a giant fuck-off hole and leaves.

Also I'd just generally like to disagree with gig's interpretation of medieval weaponry, but also just to say that minecraft has never tried to be a realistic simulator for anything. Even games like chivalry which try to add in depth melee combat feel really clunky.

I quite like the current minecraft mechanics and think a lot of skill comes from positioning and tactics rather than whether you hit them with a type 1 supercut or a type 4 thrusting parry.

Also grinding shouldn't change your character, it should only give you things. One of the best things about minecraft is that it has no leveling system. Experience is just another resource.
Last edited by cgeyl on Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby cgeyl » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:37 pm

Fonjo wrote:There will be a beta. At least one. We hope that people will break everything we build so we can make it not suck. If something just does not work or is obtuse as fuck, we'll cut it down or out. No biggie. We love you guys. And ladies.


There already was a beta for season 3 remember
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby Sheez » Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:00 am

Any character changes currently planned would be universal and accessible. Some decisions might need to be made, but none of those decisions take anything innate away.

As for combat techniques and such, I don't have plans for that. Some weapons might get slightly altered properties for diversity but that will all be tested by the player base and approved by the general population. That comes with the next patch so it is not even something I am too concerned with right now.

Also, that's a very very fair concern cgeyl. Nations has always struggled with providing a good environment for people in certain time zones. The problem is the lack of active community members from time zones that are not well represented. Often these people know each other or will band together so there is not much opportunity for them to clash. It sucks. I am open to suggestions.

Also, Season 3 never had a beta. We just attempted to provide interim minecraft for people to play with the community. Ideas and concepts were tested but that was part of the design process for S3, not beta.

A beta will happen when we have our plug-ins and features ready to go into heavy use and debugging.

Before that, we will likely aggressively alpha test individual plug ins. Such test will be admin guided and when that happens we'll pull in volunteers if people are interested. It won't be like the beta before season 2.

We have plans to rebuild the forums at time of Beta (season plug ins take priority so we'll see) and will likely offer forum badges and such for people that break our shit and give valuable feedback.

Sheez and I have been in constant communication, even while at work, working on this thing.

I have no timelines. We both want this thing to happen and already have more accessible resources than we did a week ago. A few of our plug ins are a bit more abstract right now but I feel very good about the design of the core set and the core set is what is important.

So, in the mean time, we're here to take any and all input. Design decisions are actually be made and in real time. We've already taken things here and in previous things into consideration. Your perspective helps.
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Re: Season 3 (Input)

Postby Ragandar » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:00 am

Spoiler:
Just as a quick note... I've done it before, and I will do it again. I will break your shit with my fancy Dutch magic. :twisted: Just let me know when you've got shit for me to break. (Let's see if Emp remembers what I am talking about.)
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Season 2:
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Season 2.5:

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Season 3:
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