War Plugin Brainstorming

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Re: War Plugin Brainstorming

Postby marsglorious » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:28 am

Ok, I have number of things to say. First I agree with Arco on most things. I think that genuinely non-PvP neutral nations that take care not to provoke or antagonize other nations into war should be protected from it, but at a cost, remember they don't have to build defenses. I also, like Arco, despite hating Riptide in-game, respect them because they make this server more interesting.

Arco sees the lack of active population as the reason why there are no wars, and while I think this is a contributing factor, it can better be described as the other way round. The lack of an effective war engine is a factor contributing to the lack of active population. If I wanted to, I could probably get 5 guys on the server who would otherwise not be on it, I so far I haven't seen any real need. People have different skills in Minecraft and a lot of the time there isn't really a need for them, eg. You might have pro miner or redstone wizard, but he isn't much use when you are building a cathedral. You can't blame people for getting bored and going off to play TF2 or League of Legends. I don't see this a problem, the server always trudges on and progress is made.

I put the lack of server population down to:
- Server running on half features, certain key plugins are disabled for stability reasons (eg. Citizens)
- Players and Nations are isolated in a massive world.
- Plot pricing curve too steep, massive money blackhole that prevents trade and territory expansion beyond a few buildings - limiting growth.
- Up until recently, no vendors to inject new crowns into the economy.
- Long Construction period where players build strong nations and infrastructure (main one) - boring for all but the most committed.
- Excitement of new season has worn off.
- War plugin doesn't work very well.

From what I hear, the last admin event was awesome. So I don't think it is a lack of events.

I've seen in the past that there is no greater rally call than "Omg, we have been declared war on and we are under siege, get online and save me!" or "We are launching an attack against those thieving bastards who keep killing us in the wilderness. Get online! We need every man we can get!". In this case, there is no point what someone is good at, you need every man you can get and this battle is going to be exciting.

In terms of reducing the number of nations to get larger, more productive groups, there are two things to consider.
- The distances in N@W are enormous. People are very isolated.
- At current there seems to be very little in the way of features, such as national amalgamation or strong alliances, that would allow greater cooperation and reduce fragmentation.

I use to think it was just us, but I'm starting to get the feeling that many players and nations in N@W are lonely in their own little corner of the world. To this point there needs to be a discussion about improving transit across the world and I don't just mean roads or minecarts (long distance track, even if underground, gets stolen). Consider this, say I want to travel to Stormhaven; I hope in a boat and travel to where the x,z coords are close to 0. This transit takes about 10-15 minutes of solid holding the forward key down and boats are comparatively fast and easy compared to other types. Needless to say, it is extremely boring and I often watch youtube videos while I'm en route. I remember Vorst was organizing this Nations Meeting, but the idea of travelling all the way to Vorst was too much and I didn't bother.

Greater cooperation between players requires faster transit. I was considering this idea of nations being able to buy Castles/Outposts, small sets of plots that are separate from your cities, but must be within a certain radius of territory you control (castles must be near cities (reducing fragmented nations), but encouraging chains of fortresses to extend your nation's influence. The plot pricing curve for an outpost/castle is very steep. Inside these castles, you can place gates or wizards, which depending on how you set them somehow, can teleport/jump you to a city or fortress you control, within a certain range. Hence making chains of fast travel transit where make repeated jumps from one castle to the next. If you are allied with another nation, you can potentially use their castles but in hostile, neutral or wilderness territory you have to walk or boat. This allows you to extend your influence upon the area around your cities. These castles can be attacked and taken by other nations, putting some actual conquest in the game.

Now the perfect solution to transit in Minecraft is ships and airships, like Zeppelin Mod or Movecraft, but these mods suck right now.

On the other note, allowing stronger alliances and nations to unite is good idea. Like Mill-ajru and Valoria are so closely linked, I sometimes consider that we should join together to form a Heartwood Empire.
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Re: War Plugin Brainstorming

Postby Nowan123 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:41 am

Possible solution?
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Re: War Plugin Brainstorming

Postby BlackholeNW » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:28 pm

marsglorious wrote:Greater cooperation between players requires faster transit. I was considering this idea of nations being able to buy Castles/Outposts, small sets of plots that are separate from your cities, but must be within a certain radius of territory you control (castles must be near cities (reducing fragmented nations), but encouraging chains of fortresses to extend your nation's influence. The plot pricing curve for an outpost/castle is very steep. Inside these castles, you can place gates or wizards, which depending on how you set them somehow, can teleport/jump you to a city or fortress you control, within a certain range. Hence making chains of fast travel transit where make repeated jumps from one castle to the next. If you are allied with another nation, you can potentially use their castles but in hostile, neutral or wilderness territory you have to walk or boat. This allows you to extend your influence upon the area around your cities. These castles can be attacked and taken by other nations, putting some actual conquest in the game.


This would be amazing if it were added. We have multiple watchtowers and forts which this would be perfect for. Would really make travel more easy.
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Re: War Plugin Brainstorming

Postby marsglorious » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:15 am

It's sort of like the Roman frontier forts that had signal beacons, for instance, say an attacker hit one fort, each fort was built so that it was in viewing distance of the next, hence they could send fire signals down strings of forts and alert all the Legions in the area. Lord of Rings - Edoras to Minas Tirith.

I was sort of thinking. You can slightly make out a a fort in the distance on full render, but if you can see it, you can use the Orb Gate or Wizard to TP you to it. Since it would have limit range it wouldn't be too overpowered and wouldn't allow nations to spread ridiculously, but it would speed up general transit. I think that this is what people have been sort of going at in their suggestions, like the mining base that you could spawn at. Rapid fort transit would allow far off mining bases.
Last edited by marsglorious on Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War Plugin Brainstorming

Postby lobartolini » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:37 am

I would not suggest immediate teleportation across the map, because the walk makes it a bit more realistic, but only to a certain extent. The idea of conquering towers is a great idea, but it could be taken even further. A possibility would be that after a war is completed, the winning nation would "seize" control of the losing nation for a set amount of time such as 10 hours, and the losing nation would have to pay taxes. By seize I mean only the pay of tribute, the winning nation would have no further control. This would greatly encourage nations to go to war. Also I do not remember where spacifically but there were mentionings of nations being able to have 1 or 2 colonies far from their nation. (own plots not adjacent to their own; example, vorst owning a city in the heartwoods.

P.S. I know I'm always mentioning this but it might be useful to remind the forums:
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Re: War Plugin Brainstorming

Postby Hex37 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:19 am

Yes, yes, we see the sig, moving on:

The teleportation/ley-lines idea might be good on paper but it would make it virtually impossible for any player to be robbed in transit between nations. Think of all the lowlife thieves whose dreams you would crush.
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Re: War Plugin Brainstorming

Postby marsglorious » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:39 am

Hex37 wrote:The teleportation/ley-lines idea might be good on paper but it would make it virtually impossible for any player to be robbed in transit between nations. Think of all the lowlife thieves whose dreams you would crush.


Oh shit, you're right. I didn't consider that. My idea would potentially screw up blockades and highwaymen. Well, back to the drawing board.

Lobster Martini wrote:(own plots not adjacent to their own; example, vorst owning a city in the heartwoods.

Since when? Where did you hear this? Why was I not informed? Heartwood is claimed by the Heartwood Alliance and that's a sovereignty breach. This needs to be taken up with council at World Tree, off to Griffin's Nest.
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Re: War Plugin Brainstorming

Postby Nowan123 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:47 pm

We should all remember that in 1.8+ running is much faster, so travel times will be decreased.
This might become less of a problem.
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Re: War Plugin Brainstorming

Postby Arco » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:48 pm

Eh. Sprinting is nice, but it consumes food. It's definitely not intended for long range travel.

If I'm not mistaken, the original admins (Ein, I miss you) had some kind of travel mechanic in mind with the big chained clouds and the magi city in the sky. I don't know specifics, but I think it's something they were thinking about.

I agree with Mars in princple. I think the server is running at half steam right now, missing a lot of features that were originally part of the package, and that's probably contributing to our stagnancy. I don't think the war plugin is the biggest part of that, but his point remains valid and I agree with it.

However, if we want more people there are things we can do. We can post on the Minecraft forums and have a recruiting drive. Granted we SHOULD turn away 90% of the apps we got, but we'd get a huge influx of interest from doing that. There are YouTube channels for Minecraft we could post videos in, stuff like that. If we want more people, we can get a lot more people with small amounts of effort.

I don't know if we want to do that right now, though. The server isn't running at 100% right now and we're running a very old version of the game, so I don't know if now is the best time for us to start advertising.
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Re: War Plugin Brainstorming

Postby Hex37 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:20 pm

Arco wrote:Eh. Sprinting is nice, but it consumes food. It's definitely not intended for long range travel.

Since food will become stackable, this may not be much of a problem.
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