Custom Terrain for Gigyas' server

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Re: Custom Terrain for Gigyas' server

Postby charmisokay » Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:02 am

Awesome, I've been working on some statues I'd like to put in there.
EDIT: Here's the process so far, note it totally isn't smoothed out yet and the arms are a major WIP because I need to modify the arms so they fit together. I'm making four of these guys form a circle, and each will wear a mask made of something different. It would be ideal for the center of a cave or the entrance, depending on the size of the hollow mountain.
http://imgur.com/a/n5Gf3
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Re: Custom Terrain for Gigyas' server

Postby _myst_ » Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:48 am

charmisokay wrote:Awesome, I've been working on some statues I'd like to put in there.
EDIT: Here's the process so far, note it totally isn't smoothed out yet and the arms are a major WIP because I need to modify the arms so they fit together. I'm making four of these guys form a circle, and each will wear a mask made of something different. It would be ideal for the center of a cave or the entrance, depending on the size of the hollow mountain.
http://imgur.com/a/n5Gf3


For the record, there's no natural cave entrances anywhere on the map. Everything is completely hidden underground to make resource gathering a bit more challenging.
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Re: Custom Terrain for Gigyas' server

Postby charmisokay » Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:35 am

I guess I'll just have to dig out every mountain, then :P
Will creative mode, flying or perhaps worldedit be allowed at some point?
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Re: Custom Terrain for Gigyas' server

Postby gigyas6 » Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:48 am

charmisokay wrote:I guess I'll just have to dig out every mountain, then :P
Will creative mode, flying or perhaps worldedit be allowed at some point?


If _myst_ allows the map for public access, I'd say go for it.

At the moment, given that we've already sorta started proper, I doubt we'll be seeing much of this come to pass apart from some exceptions - like setting up an event.
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Re: Custom Terrain for Gigyas' server

Postby _myst_ » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:35 pm

charmisokay wrote:I guess I'll just have to dig out every mountain, then :P
Will creative mode, flying or perhaps worldedit be allowed at some point?


No need! of you look at the map, the darker-shaded areas mark underground structures such as caves and ravines, with large dark splotches denoting hollow mountains or underground plains (Hellscape only). As of present, only one of the two underground mountains (initial discovery credited to Orionic, though I had previously settled the ground above the cavern) as well as an underground river (discovery credited to Writzbitz and Krazyguy during their road-building) have been discovered.
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Re: Custom Terrain for Gigyas' server

Postby t2wave » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:22 am

I haven't been on the server a whole lot to see everything but I would like to point out some things I've noticed with the terrain. These are things that I myself have had to experiment with when making a map in WorldPainter.

With the dabbling I have done in the program the one thing I noticed that can be particularly jarring is how easy it is to create noise. This is mostly based on the distribution of blocks that the player sees. Rather than being in splotches (which tends to look "cleaner") blocks are all mixed up or scattered. Now this could be done on purpose, so take it with a grain of salt. The Hellscape and Fenland are examples where this works alright. But there are wooded areas where the mixture of grass and podzols are messy looking. Or the odd scattering of stone throughout the Freehold.

The other thing I see is the density of trees. Again, this may be a design choice, but the density of trees is generally high where trees exist. What exactly you want varies heavily on the mood you're going for. But most of the time you will have some areas with dense tree cover and others with thinner cover. I believe the setting to look at is called Intensity. You'd have to experiment to find what works.

Given that this map is designed with distinct quadrants it will not flow like your typical map. WorldPainter gives a lot of freedom when making a map given all the options. But those options also take a while to get accustomed to and learn to fine tune. I still have quite a lot to learn about it myself.

EDIT: One other tidbit. When you are generating the terrain it is a good idea to set a buffer on the edges of your map so that other terrain (flat or otherwise) doesn't generate when people come to the edges of the map.
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Re: Custom Terrain for Gigyas' server

Postby _myst_ » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:45 am

t2wave wrote:I haven't been on the server a whole lot to see everything but I would like to point out some things I've noticed with the terrain. These are things that I myself have had to experiment with when making a map in WorldPainter.

With the dabbling I have done in the program the one thing I noticed that can be particularly jarring is how easy it is to create noise. This is mostly based on the distribution of blocks that the player sees. Rather than being in splotches (which tends to look "cleaner") blocks are all mixed up or scattered. Now this could be done on purpose, so take it with a grain of salt. The Hellscape and Fenland are examples where this works alright. But there are wooded areas where the mixture of grass and podzols are messy looking. Or the odd scattering of stone throughout the Freehold.

The other thing I see is the density of trees. Again, this may be a design choice, but the density of trees is generally high where trees exist. What exactly you want varies heavily on the mood you're going for. But most of the time you will have some areas with dense tree cover and others with thinner cover. I believe the setting to look at is called Intensity. You'd have to experiment to find what works.

Given that this map is designed with distinct quadrants it will not flow like your typical map. WorldPainter gives a lot of freedom when making a map given all the options. But those options also take a while to get accustomed to and learn to fine tune. I still have quite a lot to learn about it myself.

EDIT: One other tidbit. When you are generating the terrain it is a good idea to set a buffer on the edges of your map so that other terrain (flat or otherwise) doesn't generate when people come to the edges of the map.


Hey t2, good to hear from you, the constructive criticism is appreciated, and will be taken in stride. I don't pretend to be a master of WorldPainter by any means, and obviously have much to learn, but many of my design choices as the map is concerned in regards to terrain choice, the world border, and vegetation concentration (heh) were intentional. I hammered this map out relatively quick-and-easy-like in a bit over a week. As far as terrain noise is concerned, the Fenland and Wildwood actually use the same custom-layer type, "noise" which randomly scatters the mixture of blocks chosen, as opposed to "splotches" which was the setting I used for the Hellscape. I will admit, however, that I was pretty heavy handed (or in this case, "broad-brushed", I suppose) in applying these layers to the terrain. Truth be told, I was rushing a bit towards the end as I got more and more people asking when the map would be finished, and I was getting worried that Gigyas' server idea would fade into the background, so-to-speak, if it didn't make a big splash in the community as quickly as possible. Also, I was getting pretty sick of making mountains (major hand cramps from wielding a noise brush over them).
As for the quadrant map design, I'm aware that a real-world landmass would be unlikely to form this way, let alone develop into the biomes present in the final map, this was done purely for gameplay reasons and to echo the vibe of season 1, with a fewer number of overall biomes to encourage bonding between players in the same region. Photorealistic maps, in my experience at least, make for poor gameplay.

As for vegetation distribution, this was also intentionally done to help create the illusion that the map is larger than it actually is, and I'd say that by and large I succeeded. most of the biomes are difficult to navigate (or at least, were, before we built roads everywhere. Another gameplay reason was so that players could freely harvest wood from the environment rather than artificial farms to make large structures/cities without having to worry about making the terrain look like shit via deforestation. Personally, I would have liked to use more custom trees and plant growth, but I wasn't able to successfully import any current files, so I made up for this in concentration, which in practice has led to some interesting growth patterns.

Finally to touch on the map border issue, the border was originally entirely set to Void, but this started to cause massive, game-crashing lag for me during construction, so it became impractical. The bedrock wall feature that WorldPainter adds to map borders is confined to WorldPainter's 128x128 block tile system, so with a circular map such as mine, doesn't provide a good "seal" at the edges, and can also be easily seen from the map's interior if in place. To preserver aesthetic, I elected to remove it, as it served no purpose but to muck up the views.
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Re: Custom Terrain for Gigyas' server

Postby t2wave » Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:18 am

_myst_ wrote:Hey t2, good to hear from you, the constructive criticism is appreciated, and will be taken in stride. I don't pretend to be a master of WorldPainter by any means, and obviously have much to learn, but many of my design choices as the map is concerned in regards to terrain choice, the world border, and vegetation concentration (heh) were intentional. I hammered this map out relatively quick-and-easy-like in a bit over a week. As far as terrain noise is concerned, the Fenland and Wildwood actually use the same custom-layer type, "noise" which randomly scatters the mixture of blocks chosen, as opposed to "splotches" which was the setting I used for the Hellscape. I will admit, however, that I was pretty heavy handed (or in this case, "broad-brushed", I suppose) in applying these layers to the terrain. Truth be told, I was rushing a bit towards the end as I got more and more people asking when the map would be finished, and I was getting worried that Gigyas' server idea would fade into the background, so-to-speak, if it didn't make a big splash in the community as quickly as possible. Also, I was getting pretty sick of making mountains (major hand cramps from wielding a noise brush over them).
As for the quadrant map design, I'm aware that a real-world landmass would be unlikely to form this way, let alone develop into the biomes present in the final map, this was done purely for gameplay reasons and to echo the vibe of season 1, with a fewer number of overall biomes to encourage bonding between players in the same region. Photorealistic maps, in my experience at least, make for poor gameplay.

As for vegetation distribution, this was also intentionally done to help create the illusion that the map is larger than it actually is, and I'd say that by and large I succeeded. most of the biomes are difficult to navigate (or at least, were, before we built roads everywhere. Another gameplay reason was so that players could freely harvest wood from the environment rather than artificial farms to make large structures/cities without having to worry about making the terrain look like shit via deforestation. Personally, I would have liked to use more custom trees and plant growth, but I wasn't able to successfully import any current files, so I made up for this in concentration, which in practice has led to some interesting growth patterns.

Finally to touch on the map border issue, the border was originally entirely set to Void, but this started to cause massive, game-crashing lag for me during construction, so it became impractical. The bedrock wall feature that WorldPainter adds to map borders is confined to WorldPainter's 128x128 block tile system, so with a circular map such as mine, doesn't provide a good "seal" at the edges, and can also be easily seen from the map's interior if in place. To preserver aesthetic, I elected to remove it, as it served no purpose but to muck up the views.

Understood. Then I would say that you've largely succeeded with what you wanted for the map. It's always an outside looking in kind of thing when I'm looking at someone else's work.

You did a nice job with the mountains by the way. I had to fiddle with those for a while before I got something I liked. I need to try out WorldPainter again, been a while.
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Re: Custom Terrain for Gigyas' server

Postby _myst_ » Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:49 am

t2wave wrote:
You did a nice job with the mountains by the way. I had to fiddle with those for a while before I got something I liked. I need to try out WorldPainter again, been a while.


Thanks! I actually thought the mountains could have used quite a bit more work (a bunch of them have round, smooth tops) but I was just so sick of making them that I just went over the peaks with the "cracks" brush and called it a day. This is actually the first Worldpainter map that I've built for others to play on, outside of my just messing around. As for trying it out, I highly recommend it, I think that the UI has improved greatly over the years since I first started screwing around with it.
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